Category: Hard Rock Band

emerging talents

Tyketto for 30 years has been a rocky story

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  • Saturday,Dec 29, 2018
  • category Hard Rock Band

The band that has been knocked down, gotten back up, and refuses to give up. They are the band that are still rocking with no signs of slowing down. Tyketto (Danny Vaughn-Vocals, Chris Green-Guitar, Chris Childs-bass, Michael Clayton-drums, Ged Rylands-keyboards) has had a busy year touring. This year will see the release of the band's upcoming DVD We've got tomorrow, we've got tonight and next year 25th anniversary tour of their sophomore album strength in numbers. I had an opportunity to catch up with Michael Clayton to talk about the DVD and the upcoming tour.

Angel Alamo: How did the idea for the live DVD come about?

Michael Clayton: Not that particular idea, but just Tyketto in general, once we kind of got back on the world stage, and doing the big festivals and everything, we are exposed to a multitude of different bands. So we some of them, of our contemporaries, they just kind of go and they're phoning it in, and they're unprepared, and they're just doing whatever they want to do to make their money, then we see a number of bands that are playing wonderfully, but when you see them from show one to show two and year one to year two, it's the same cut and paste show. Even though it's quality, it's the same thing.

The bands we like to go see when we're on these festivals are the bands that always try to mix it up, they try to give you some little ... you know, we've been together 30 years, so how many people in our genre haven't seen us live? So Danny and I are always talking about what could do differently.

We'll do a really obscure song off of one of the records. A few years ago we did a song off The Shine record that Danny didn't even sing, that was Steve Augeri, fans loved that. Just looking through the catalog. We haven't played this song in 10 or 15 years. About three or four years ago we decided to do Standing Alone, with just Danny and a piano, that was beautiful.

So last year, we looked, like okay now what are we going to do? We got to do something different, we didn't know quite what to do, so the first dialogue was for an acoustic DVD, that we'd do different arrangements and stuff like that. And then the more we got to talking about it, Danny had done that once or twice over the years, Danny and I had done that together, actually, so it didn't seem special.

So the idea just started, let's get backing vocalists. Great, okay, we'll do that. Let's get a horn section. Okay, we'll do that too. And let’s get a string section. So one everybody got all excited about it, and we just started throwing these crazy ideas around with each other. Fast forward six months, we're in Wales, we've got a 14-piece band on stage. We've decided to make it a fan event.

First we were gonna just do a studio thing, like a no audience at all. So then we added the extra pressure of playing in front of a live audience, so it just became this monster, but it was born out of knowing how long our fans have been with us, and wanted to give them something that they never saw before. So that's how the idea was sparked about a year ago.

No, that's fine.

Angel Alamo: What can fans expect on the live DVD? Will they get to see, like the backstage stuff, of the band preparing?

Michael Clayton: Our first thoughts was let's look through the catalog. First idea was let's pick stuff that, really obscure. And then we said, well doing stuff that's obscure, and doing it differently may really throw our fans. So I think it was Chris and I started talking, we said why don't we do our most popular stuff, and just ... I'm not sure if you remember, and I never forgot it, Bon Jovi did an Unplugged on MTV, many years ago, and him and Richie did this acoustic version of Livin' on a Prayer, that had this minor key feel to it. It was very somber, it was just a sad version of that beautiful pop song, and I never forgot it, because it was like a song I knew and loved for many years, but all the sudden it became a new song again, because they did it differently.

So that became our headset. So we just throwing crazy ideas. I had let's do Kick Like a Mule, which is a flat out, balls to the wall rock tune, let's do it like a Glenn Miller big band, with horns and real campy backing vocals, like The Andrew Sisters, and stuff like that. And then, what were some of the other ones that really struck out?

Then we went a whole different left direction was, with Last Sunset, is a pure acoustic song. We said let's put instrumentation behind that, and make that like a kind of Keith Urban, pop country tune. That went that direction. The one that was really scary for us was Forever Young, because that's something that you're just not supposed to touch. That's the big. That's it.

And Chris sent this idea over, and in my stubborn, New York head, all I was registering was, "Different." So he's like, "What do you think?"

I'm like, "I hate it." It was such a left turn, and what I love about Tyketto is we're very much a democracy. He loved it, so he says, without giving Danny your opinion, would you mind if I sent it to Danny?

I said, "No dude, just because I don't," I said, "It just sounds so radically different, I'm not sure if the fans are really gonna embrace this."

So he sends it to Danny. Danny calls me up, he goes, "I think you're nuts dude, I love it."

I'm like, "Well fair enough, then we do it."

So I got outvoted on it. As we started exchanging demos, different left my head, and just quality entered my head. And I'm like, "Damn." And it reminded me of that Bon Jovi thing. It's somber, and it's dark, and it's lonely. It's Danny. Chris on acoustic. Backing vocals and cello. That's it. And it sounds so ominous, and kind of creepy. It's dark, but it's just a beautiful ballad, and the more I listened to it, I very happily admitted that I was wrong, and I'm glad they talked me out of it.

Stuff like that. We have Faithless, which always had an almost a Zeppelin-esque feel. That was off our Dig In Deep record, and I just heard these big, like No More Tears by Ozzy (Osbourne). The big metal strings sound. So we put that in, and two of the fans came up to me after, we did like a dinner, meet and greet, after each night we shot, we shot over two days, and a number of the fans came up, two in particular who were like, "That sounded like Kashmir by Zeppelin, when you did that with those strings like that."

We just looked at each song and said, how can we flip this on its ear? Wings we took, and that was me pushing for that one, and Danny and Chris not hearing it. I wanted to do it like a flat out, late 1950s, early '60s, like Frankie Valli, kind of almost like a doo-wop feel. Playing up the backing vocals a lot. And once they got rolling with my idea, they were like, "Wow, okay, this is cool, we're gonna do it this way."

Each song got handled a different way, and it's ... I think the fans ... the fans told me that were at the shoot. One of them in particular, our buddy Julie, that's seen us a zillion times, she said, "I went into this not knowing if I was gonna like it. Like you can't mess with my Tyketto songs, these are how I want them." And she was like, one of them, she goes, "It took me like a minute before I realized what song it was, that's how different you made some of this stuff."

So I think it's gonna make the old school fans really happy, because it's songs they love, but done a totally different way.

Angel Alamo: There's nothing wrong with that, because I mean after 30 years, it's okay to want to do something different.

Michael Clayton: It's tough. Me and Chris talk about it. We did a bunch of interview footage, and Chris got the interview of Chris, and Ged, and Greg, is "How's it like being the new guys?"

And Chris was the first one to say, "When you go see," ... like I remember going to see Extreme on the Monsters of Rock Cruise, they had a different drummer. Once I gave him a chance and watched him, he was unbelievably good, but people don't really like change, especially with bands they're already attached to. So how you play stuff, who's up on that stage, we've got ... out of five members in Tyketto, Danny and I are the only two original members left. So I think, with our genre especially, that the bands are getting a little bit older, I can't think of many bands at all that have all the original members, so it seems like the fans are a bit more understanding of change, whether you do a song differently, or have different members on stage.

And I always tell Danny, as long as he's up on that stage singing the way he sings, it'll always be Tyketto.

Angel Alamo: What has been the key to keeping the band together?  The band, it's like you guys seem more like a family than a band.

Michael Clayton: Danny and I laugh about it, because we say it so much, we're always paranoid it's gonna come off non-sincere, but it's absolutely true. We're all kind of busy in our lives, in our own businesses. We're all doing fairly well out on our own. Tyketto's a very elective decision, because Danny said it best in an interview back in June, it's like a family reunion, and we don't do this all that often. So like, we're on the road eight or nine months a year. But even after not seeing each other for five, six, seven months, it is like Chris brought his son, got to see us live for the first time.

My son grew up, I was flashing back to the first time we played M3, that was the first time my boy saw Tyketto, and he was off on the side of the stage. And now here's Chris' son, Sullivan, who's seeing us for the first time. So it is very much a family thing.

Angel Alamo: Is he the one that got to sing with Slaughter?

Michael Clayton: He went up and sang with Slaughter, yeah. He was he's a rock star. Sullivan's my buddy, and he is just we do Q&As and trivia contests with KISS and Alice Cooper, and he's a superstar. He's a beautiful boy. But it really is ... many, many years ago, with the old lineup, Brooke (St. James) just wasn't feeling the rigors of traveling anymore, and his back hurt, and you know, he had some medical issues over the years from a couple car accidents he had. He just ached. And he goes, "This is a game for 25 year-olds to play. I can't go out on the road. Physically, I just don't want to do it."

Jimi was in a position where his day job availability was just giving him less and less time. It's hard to just jump on a plane and go away for a month, and put your whole life on hold. Danny and I stuck it out, and ... two things, it had to be a priority in our lives, we agreed on, and also that we did what we wanted, and how we wanted to do it. We're not selling millions of records.

Even with this DVD, we first were talking about maybe an October release. We decided that we were going to do what we wanted to do, we were going to prioritize the band, and we were going to do things at the right time. So first with the DVD we were talking about maybe an October release, not realizing this is 14 songs, it's mixing a 14-piece band. It's new renditions. There's probably an hour, hour and a half of interview footage, and behind the scenes stuff. The artwork, like we do everything in house, we're self-managed, it's all us.

So we said, you know, we'll release it when it's ready. And the Tyketto of old with Geffen, and deadlines, and publicists, it's almost like a liberty now that we didn't have back in the day, and I think the quality of the product is coming out better when we finally do it, so it is very much a business. It's a family run business is what it is, that's how we feel about it.

Angel Alamo: Was there any reaction to how the fans would feel to the arrangements of the songs on the DVD? Like you mentioned they don't like the songs being messed with, but was there anything in the back of your mind saying, "Is this a good idea?"

Michael Clayton: What we did, what we decided to do is, we had this daunting task of finding a live venue that we could record album quality audio in. So the gentleman that engineered the live stuff, Nick Brine, a Welsh gentleman, he actually engineered our Reach album. I just called him up for suggestions, I was like, "Nick, I need a place close by hotels, a place we can eat in, I want to do a buffet dinner for all the guests that watch the show."

He said, "I got your place," he just knew it instantly. So he found a place called the Muni, M-U-N-I, in Wales, and we did a meet and greet with the band, the fans that attended it are gonna get a complimentary DVD when it's done, and we did a buffet dinner served after Saturday night's, Sunday night's shoot. So we really got to talk to the people.

First I thought it was just me and Danny, because this thing ended up becoming a bit of a storytellers night. It ended up being very personal for me and Danny. Like I'm talking about living at my mom's house with the band, and writing these songs for the first time, and it brought back ... it was very emotional for both of us. And then after the first couple of songs, Cheryl Kane, who's one of our backing singers, they were standing next to the drum riser, and she kind of started whispering over to me, and she goes, you know, as each band member took turns introducing a song. So I would tell stories about what happened 28 years ago.

And she says, "I expected this to be emotional for you and Danny because this is your lives, but your story is so special, when you were talking I was crying, and I don't really know you guys like that, like I don't know your history, but it's just the level of respect and love you have for each other, and what this band means to you guys, it really moved me"

So I thought that was good, that we moved one of the performing artists. Then we went into the audience for the dinner, and fans are coming up, "When you did that version of Forever Young, I was crying."

Everybody was so pulled into the emotion of this weekend. It was probably the most special thing I think Danny and I have ever produced in this band's history. We struck a personal chord with people, and we really ... doing the songs stripped down, hearing what went behind these songs when they were first written, it became this real ... I can't even describe what went on that weekend, but we all felt it. The emotion, and I think if ... people listen to it and hear the same thing that we all felt that weekend, this is gonna be a slam dunk for us. It was very risky what we did, but I think the fans are gonna absolutely love it.

Angel Alamo: The band are actually going on the road to do the 25 year anniversary of Strength in Numbers. Besides the European tour, is the band gonna do any other tours beyond?

Michael Clayton: That one we totally stumbled on. We were knee deep in the DVD, and Danny and I like to just put something up on Facebook, every, maybe, we don't go a couple weeks without something. We just think the fans are always looking, they're jumping on the site. So I remember, and I usually, as you can tell, and when I write things I write 80 paragraphs, I'm caffeine infused hyperactivity.

I went to do a post, and I really had nothing to say. Nothing was really going on, so I just went through my laptop, looking for a picture to put up, and I wasn't even thinking about any kind of business, and I just put the picture up, and as I put the picture up, I went, "Holy crap, next year's 25 years."

And I think, I don't remember the exact words, it was one sentence, all I wrote is like, "Wow, 25 years next year." That's all I wrote. And it got like 800 likes in two hours. And all the sudden, people just started, "You have to tour, oh my god, you have to do that!"

I was like, "Holy crap." And I called Danny up, I'm like, "Dude, what the heck?" It just lit everybody up. So we got to talking about it. It was so weird, because I think when we ... we'd just did the same thing for Don't Come Easy anniversary tour a couple years back, and I think England, for whatever reason, Danny being in Waysted, how much we toured over there, most people think we're really a British band, like we'll go there and headline, and anywhere from 800 to 1,000 people will show up. We just don't do those big numbers on headline spots in America. M3's great, the cruise is great, but we never really do that on our own.

So once we started hearing back from the fans that we're friends with, a lot of them said, you know, Don't Come Easy has Forever Young, and Wings, and Standing Alone, that's your epic debut. But Strength in Numbers is our record. That's the record you toured on in '94. That was End of the Summer Days video, which was a number one on MTV Europe, so we said, "Okay, let's do an anniversary tour, let's just stick it in the UK, just for more to see what happens."

I'm in the process now of maybe doing some European dates in the fall. We just signed on for one festival in Hamburg, in September,2019. We're discussing the possibility of maybe adding some more dates around that. We're exploring, we're playing at Rocklanta, in March, to wrap up the UK tour, which is wonderful. So we're going to be on American soil, it's a great weekend bill.

But right now, we're focusing on March, all of our efforts are into getting the DVD done. Once we can take a breath from that, we may add a couple more dates onto September.

Angel Alamo: Is there right now, an official live release for the DVD yet?

Michael Clayton: Not yet. We're going to do it when it's right. It'll definitely be before the end of the year, absolutely. Crossing my fingers on mid to late November, we had a couple glitches we had to fix as far as the video wasn't syncing up with the audio. I like to do artwork, but I'm like a caveman with artwork. I'm the guy hitting a stone with a little mallet. Cheryl Kane, who's, the Kane girls are just our buddies, they're our sisters with this whole thing. They were a little bit beyond band members, just jumping up on stage for hire, they really became part of our family.

So Cheryl is masterful at Photoshop and graphic design, but she likes my ideas. So I'll just call her up in the middle of the night, and be like, "Do this, and how about this red color? And put this picture there," so she takes my idea and she turns it into real artwork. My stuff's just spouting out of my head.

Down to the mixing, the mastering, the video editing is taken twice as long as we thought it was going to. There's a lot of footage to look through. So I don't think we're gonna commit to a release date, but it will undeniably be before year is up. That's the worst case, will be mid to late December, but hopefully sooner.

Angel Alamo: What are your memories of making the Strength in Numbers album?

Michael Clayton: Horrible. I actually wrote, I'm gonna probably put it out next month. Strength in Numbers, I think ... things strike a memory, and for many, many years, that record, to me, was us getting dropped by Geffen, the advent of grunge music, which put us out of business. Both Danny, Brooke, and I ending three very long term relationships with women, out of which two of us were engaged. Jimmy leaving the band. So that all is the Strength in Numbers era.

I like to write these weird essays when I'm home by myself at night. Just on different life experiences, and I wrote about that, and I'm like, I think it wasn't until Chris and Ged came into the band, and the beauty of new faces, and I guess any band will tell you, is new blood, new energy, they came into the band as Tyketto fans. Ged said, "I saw you play Download, however many years ago, and now I'm onstage playing Download with you. This is like a mind fuck, this is crazy."

So they came in, and watching Chris play Rescue Me, and playing Ain't That Love, and playing Strength in Numbers, and seeing the fans going nuts. Catch My Fall is actually on this DVD as well. I thought to myself, because Don't Come Easy was always my baby. That was good life, big advances signing to Geffen, our first major ... that has all the positive connotations with it. Once I went, "You know what? I haven't been judging this record fairly, because all I focus on the horrible shit that happened, it was really best with Danny quit the band, that was ... us at our worst, and I equate it to when you read about a miracle baby that shouldn't have been born, and somehow they defied the odds and they made it.

Once I listened to the record, like without judging all the circumstances around it, I'm like, "Man, this is a fuckin' good album." And a lot of fans in England prefer it over Don't Come Easy. I think it's a little grittier. We leaned into it a little bit more on that record. So my memory's of the making of the record aren't really that great, because there was so much other shit going on, but my current memory of the album, as far as body of work, it's absolutely wonderful. So I'm looking forward to playing that whole ... we're doing the record in its entirety on that tour.

Angel Alamo: Like you said, it's still a great record because at the time you was going through the thing with Geffen, I remember Nelson was like waiting and waiting for the follow up album.

Michael Clayton: We finished the album ... right when things started turning. So we had a fully mixed and mastered record, we had the artwork done, we had the photo picked for the cover, we had a full press schedule ready to go. This thing was as ready as ready could be, and then Brooke and I went up to the city. We started feeling we weren't getting callbacks, so we figure let's go visit our accountant. They haven't seen us in a while, we'd been on the road, and we'd been working on this record.

So we went to go, I forget, we went to some journalist, and they weren't able to see us. We went to our accountant's office, he put us in his conference room, we said, "We want to play the record, we got the record finished.

This was a guy that really, was with us, we did very big deals when we first signed with Geffen. So our accountant and our lawyer were like family with us. They were really brokering a lot of big money stuff. And I remember, I put the record on, we weren't into the first chorus of Strength in Numbers, and he left. And me and Brooke sat there, and listening to our own record by ourselves in this huge conference room.

He came back in, and I thought it was to be like, "Oh sorry guys, I had a call, let's listen to this." He came back in to get a folder he left on the desk. Grabbed it, and fucking left. So we were sitting there like, "What?"

And I remember that night we went home, and we were in the city all day, so before driving back to Jersey, we stopped at my mom's in Staten Island, and I remember we just had dinner there, I was watching a little TV. My manager called that night, and we knew we were like ... it's like that girl that's ready to break up with you. You know it's coming, but you don't know when.

My manager called that night, and he says, "Geffen had a meeting, this music's just not selling, not only are they not gonna release this album, but they are dropping the band from the label."

So we went from three days before that, with a release date, and made a record between videos and mixing and mastering and art, probably close to half a million dollar, that just got shitcanned. Like overnight, and it was gone. So that was pretty devastating for us.

Angel Alamo: Then the band got picked up by CMC?

Michael Clayton: CMC. There was ... the European market didn't feel the hit as much as the American market did, so we just took it elsewhere, and what we did ... Danny and I are songwriters and song producers, and we make records and all that good stuff, but the core of our existence, we're live guys. We like to work up a sweat, we like to play live. That year when we were in that state of flux, we just hit the road. So we toured England relentlessly on that record.

We toured Europe. I mean, I think we'd go out for four or five months at a clip, and just play anywhere and everywhere, that's how we survived, was just by playing live with that. And then, things went quiet after that. Then Danny left. For a band to sustain themselves purely on playing live, that's exhaustive. You gotta be out on the road how many times a year just to pay your rent?

So that ended up, it got us through '94, but by the end of that year, Danny had just had enough, and just, that's when he quit too, so. Everything's come at a price for us over the years it seems, but we're still here.

Angel Alamo: That’s the great thing, like when I was talking to Danny at the M3 festival, it was like, wow, you know, it's kind of cool to have grown up reading about you on Metal Edge magazine, and reading your interviews, I'm here face to face, laughing with you, I'm like, "Who would've thought?"

Michael Clayton: No, we never would've thought. This whole thing came we waited for our moment, and just as we started getting a little bit of gas in the tank, that's when the genre just exploded, with the M3 and the Monsters of Rocks, and all the festivals going on all around the country. We, it was so weird because, we'd go to those Monsters of Rock cruise, or even the M3 festival we were on, I look at the bands on those bills, we're probably the only band, if not maybe one out of three, that doesn't have a gold or platinum record. We never achieved that status.

So what's happening now is, people like yourself that's like, "Holy shit, I get to see these guys finally," that happens a lot. But in addition to that, they'll come up and say, "Dude, I'm like a Y&T fan, I don't know who the hell you guys were, but holy shit," like to the point where Dave Meniketti from Y&T, every night on that cruise, would be like, "If you haven't seen these guys, go see them."

He was just such a supporter of us, so a lot of the band members, the guys from Firehouse, the guys from Faster Pussycat, the guys from Y&T, the guys in Winger, they have never seen us live, and they kind of discovered the band. The old fans are coming back around, saying "Wow, it's great to see you again," and there's people discovering us for the first time. So it really put us back on the planet in a big way. Which is great, I can't ask for more than that.

Angel Alamo: Fans are always curious to know, does the band ever check out what the fans are saying on Facebook?

Michael Clayton: The thing we love about our social networking is. I'm personally ... I think Jon Bon Jovi, and I think Jennifer Lawrence said it, that it's much more interesting to be a voyeur, and watch what other people are saying versus ... because right now you put your opinion on social media, you're looking to get your head handed to you. So the one thing I love ... I think our Facebook page is about 18,000 people now. We didn't go trolling for any names, that's truly our fan base. And the one thing ... the many things I love about our British fan base, they give it to you straight. They'll tell you if it's good, they'll tell you if it's bad.

So we always defer to them. We're always asking them, "What'd you think about this?" Actually there was a fan, his name is Luna, many many years ago, on the Strength in Numbers tour, and he came to see us all the time. I was smoking a lot, and I remember I was like, "Luna, how was the gig?" I thought I did good. I asked him, "How was the gig?"

He goes, "Eh, you kinda sucked."

I'm like, "Excuse me?"

And he goes, "Dude, you look like you were gasping for air up there."

And I'm like, "Well, I was." I'm smoking a pack of Marlboro reds a day. So from him being so brutally honest with me, and I was mortified when I said that, because I take my ... I never drink, no drugs, nothing behind that drum set. Nothing ever. I won't even take a sip of alcohol, or a sip of a beer before, nothing. It really hurt me that my smoking had deteriorated my performance to the point where a fan recognized it, and I must have told him ten times over the years, I quit smoking that next day, and haven't smoked since.

So you gotta take it as it comes. Some fans will tell you you're the greatest thing in the world if you're not, just because they're your fans. You get the pessimists out there, and the haters, that nothing you can do is right. So we listen to everybody, but at the end of the day we make our own decisions. But yeah, we are very active, we always want to know what our fans want to hear. We respect our fans. They've been with us for 30 years. When we did that DVD in June. I think there was maybe 120, 130 people a night. I knew 90 of them. 95 of them by first name.

These are our fans, we call them our friends, where fan just sounds a little too distant. These were our friends, bordering on our family, pretty much.

Angel Alamo: Did you know that one of your friends, they have a Tyketto fan page.

Michael Clayton: That's Julie. Julie is Wonder Woman. Julie does our merchandise, Julie does our website, Julie does the fan page. Her and her husband Darren are just sweetheart people, very intelligent, gets the business side of things, but I think we've got such a unique fan ... we're like a Rocky story. We never gave up. We never had that ... you know, we're not sitting on seven, eight figures in the bank like some of our contemporaries are. We're just kind of blue collar, working class guys, but we go up there and kick the shit out of the stage every time we get on it.

Our fans, that makes them excited. If you guys aren't giving up, we're not giving up either, so they come along with us for this thing, and Julie has just been an indispensable member of the team, and she just does it purely because she loves us as people, we love her, and she believes in it. Everything you just said is Julie.

Angel Alamo: Would the band ever do a residency, like your peers, much like in Vegas or in any venue? Like a residency type of thing?

Michael Clayton: Danny thinks I'm mentally ill, Danny and I, we are Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons, we absolutely are. Little bit younger, not as many zeros in the bank account, but Danny truly, Danny likes to be an artist. He wants to create. He said the business circles gives him a headache. I am very hyper, I run my own successful business. I'm booking over 3,000 shows a year, in nine states. I'm a very active businessman. And I told Danny, I said, "'Til the day I'm in the ground, I'm gonna look for something to spark us," like that Anvil documentary they did, it just blew them up. Or if you think of that band, I don't even remember the name of the band, they were like an indie band, that got that Sopranos theme song. That set them up, probably for life, just with one opportunity, so a residency, unfortunately for us, we got two huge support slot offers this year, which would've put us in front of five to ten thousand people a night, we just couldn't coordinate it personally.

So I'm always looking, because I do think, somebody asked Danny in an interview back in June, what don't you like about Tyketto? What do you like about them, what don't you like about being in Tyketto? And Danny said, "I know this is gonna sound arrogant, but with how hard we work at our craft, I'm pissed off we're not more successful, because we really deserve to be. We put 110%, seven days a week into this thing."

And I can kind of echo that sentiment, and I told Danny, I said, "It's just gonna take one placement in a TV show, one movie thing, the right support slot, the right person seeing it that maybe a big artist hears a song and wants to cover it." I Will Always Love You by Whitney Houston, Dolly Parton wrote that.

So you never know where the road's gonna go. So as long as we're out there doing what we're doing, I am pretty much an eternal optimist, I'm always looking for that one thing. Like even when we did the reunion tour, I think it was 2004, I didn't want to do it because we didn't have any product, it was just like, "Ehh," and this little voice in my head said, why not? Give it a shot, might be fun. Haven't seen the guys in a while. So from that one little decision, I met my wife on that tour. And now we have an 11 year-old son. And none of that would've happened if ... so the path winds in very weird directions, so I think as long as we're out there doing it, we always have that chance of getting our just desserts, and what I think we're due as a band. But we're enjoying the trip as well. It's a nice process overall.

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